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CMS White label feedback


#1

I am thrilled to see the integration of white label to the webflow CMS. I noticed that it is free for one year if we add it to a site before the end of the year and then afterwards there is an additional fee.

Honestly, I am very disappointed by the decision to yet add extra fees to added features. I was initially very upset at the price increase of the new CMS when it first launched. I thought that the CMS should have simply been a part of the plan, especially the pro and higher plans. Imagine if Adobe increased the cost of the Creative Cloud every time they added a new product or feature to their subscription plans.

At least there was a drop in price to the CMS hosting and I accepted that. Now as of today, I find out that the price is going to shoot back up again. It is a huge turn off. I don't care so much that it's free for one year. I look at the big picture and building a sustainable business that I can make a profit too and remain competitive with the hosting I offer my clients.

Webflow, I really do love you guys, but I am very disappointed and this will most likely be where I leave.


#2

#3

+1 this really lowered my perception of webflow's brand and makes me worried about really building a business on this platform


#4

I appreciate your guys' input

A few things I'd like you to consider:

  • Pushing the web forward takes a lot of R&D investment. Hiring engineers to work on the product, designers to perfect it, it's all extremely capital intensive. Especially since we're based out of SF
  • Continued investment, and return on investment is required for us to continue working on Webflow. Without a way to make money, there isn't a way to financially sustain our plans to build for you, the professional web designer
  • Our whitelabel feature is only meant for larger agencies, and companies that need this level of customization. We rely a lot on word of mouth for Webflow's growth - without people knowing that they are using Webflow, there is little opportunity for word of mouth to spread.
  • If you are frustrated by Webflow, please make it known to us via support@webflow.com. We're happy to receive your feedback.

#5

Bryant, I'm not "lashing out". I gave my feedback in a respectful manner. Thanks a lot of hiding my comment from everyone. This was a really shitty thing to do. You should have simply commented to me there publicly. I don't appreciate my voice being censored. This alone makes me far more upset than the white label charge.

Another thing, your defense for white label being for larger agencies is completely absurd. Tell me that you are not serious with that comment? Can you seriously not see how small freelancers need this? We need a uniform product to give our clients... and we don't need them knowing what we use and how much we pay or running off directly to webflow. I am beyond angered and confused right now.


#6

#7

Relisted after I had some time to respond to @GodlessGlen.

Reminder to all: please read our Community Guidelines prior to posting. We love your feedback, but I'd like to remind everyone of this:

Improve the Discussion

Help us make this a great place for discussion by always working to improve the discussion in some way, however small. If you are not sure your post adds to the conversation, think over what you want to say and try again later.

Note - I only unlisted the post so I could reply before people piled on without context :smile:


#8

Bryant, are you suggesting that I didn't follow community guidelines? If so, please enlighten me.
I've never had a problem here before voicing my thoughts on something even when I disagree. I gave my initial post in a respectful way and to have you block it and lecture me is mind-blowing.


#9

wow! nothing about what anyone has said about whitelabeling has been disrespectful. up until this point it seemed like you guys and this community was open to our feedback. i am really shocked at how you have handled this.


#10

@brryant Thank you guys for everything you are doing to make Webflow AWESOME <3 I don't know what's with everyone else, but I actually love to tell my clients about Webflow. When I go meet my clients for the first time, I tell them "we" use a system that makes web design and development so easy for us, the designers, and for them, the clients, as it will be easy for them to make their own updates, and it will cost them less, etc, etc.. I tell then, "we" are working on new features that I will be able to provide them in the future, I tell them I will ask "the guys" if they have a work around for now.... I feel like I am part of Webflow. It's not just a "system" I'm using. And for all the cool features you put out each time, specially all the stuff you announced yesterday and today, i fell more in love with Webflow. I want to be a part of this community, not just to use Webflow, but to advertise it as well. It's the future of the web, and I am soooo excited I'm part of it. Good job guys, and thank you so much.
No white-label for me... I use Webflow Baby <3


#11

Constructive Feedback from a small timer / upstart:

The ability to just swap out the logo on the CMS if you are on a personal plan while leaving the Webflow bits in the code & forms would have been nice. Cool feature but can't/won't use it at that cost - but you probably already know that given your statement above.

Explaining the features & ease of use that comes with the cutting edge technology of the CMS and level of hosting is worth the "extra" cost of hosting per month in a client's eyes (most are typically used to sub $5 USD) - so the jump to $10 seems like money well spent.

Convincing them to jump to $15 or $20 a month (depending on what plan you are on) just so I can slap my logo in the bottom left corner would be much harder, especially if you are simply being transparent about where their money is going: $5 for super awesome hosting, $5 for super awesome CMS, $10 for me to slap my logo in the bottom left corner of the dashboard...

Webflow Love:
Nobody really has a problem with their clients knowing they are using Wordpress for the CMS, so what's the difference in the end. I've realized that it doesn't really matter if I tell my clients I use the Webflow platform or not. They aren't UI designers who are proficient in all the skills needed to deliver a web project (html, css, hosting, etc...).

I know your landing page verbiage sounds like "sign up now, anybody can do it" but we all know that isn't necessarily the case. As previously noted, some small business owners will try to work through their way through it, but you have to have a specific level & combination of technical know-how, designer skills, and proficiency in html/css to be able to do nice things with Webflow & create anything your mind comes up with. Sounds like a skill set that people are willing to pay for to me, no shame in telling people I'm using Webflow to accomplish it. They just want a beautiful & responsive extension of their brand that works, so they can focus on building their business & not trying to be a designer or a developer.

Surprise:
However, I do think you guys have to find a way to get beyond the "hey, this new feature is coming soon..." then dropping it months later and saying "here it is!!! it will only cost this much more!".

That is always going to rub your client base the wrong way, so every single time you do it - expect blow back. People in general were used to buying software to use, now the world has shifted to SAAS and subscription plans... Adobe championed the model, so people feel like they are already paying you for new features, continually/endlessly every single month. Especially on this platform where you get your Webflow tool fee & now the hosting fees via the clients they bring you.

In summary:
I love Webflow, I hate surprises, white-labeling is cool if your clients are fine with paying you $20+ for hosting alone & this still leaves you with some kind of monthly maintenance/update fee wiggle room if that is a necessity in your business model. If so, good for you, hope to be there one day :wink: Until then, I have no problem with the Webflow logo sitting in the bottom left corner.


#12

Can Webflow provide some insight into what a "larger agency" is ?


#13

@Anna_Kelian Hi Anna, I totally get where you are coming from as well. I want you and everyone else to understand that we are proud that we use webflow. In fact, I talk about it on social media, thumb up their videos, and constantly recommend it to anyone who is looking for a platform to build their site or a client's site. I've recommended it above everything else such as Wordpress, Wix, Weebly, SquareSpace, Duda, etc. This means that I am advertising webflow as well.

However, when it come to MY business, I want a uniform look. The only company I want in front of them regarding their site is my company, 16 Peaks.

Imagine finding webflow and signing up, and then when we log in we are presented with a 3rd party tool. IMO, it would take away from the validity of it.

Again, I want to present a uniform branding to my clients. There are numerous reasons for this, some of which I've already laid out.

Perhaps it is possible that in the grand scheme of things it wouldn't hurt my business to not be white labeled, but from my understanding it is much better to offer a white label solution to your customers.


#14

I agree @GodlessGlen that a white label solution is better and that if you want to have a professional business you will want that uniform look. But if anyone wants to have a professional business they will be willing to pay for the tools. We should be we are getting so many cool features without too much to pay and most of the cost is being paid by our customers. I wouldn't complain at all actually. White labeling, on the other hand, is a total different thing I believe. I have never seen or heard of anyone offering a Free white label solution. That would be super stupid, IMHO. Anyway, everyone has there views and opinions about things. No one is right and no one is wrong. I just am so grateful to the Webflow staff for the community they created and the way they are working to provide our needs as quickly as possible and to listen to us and our issues and complaints and demands and provide webinars and courses, etc, etc.. I am so grateful I would be glad to show that appreciation by supporting the Webflow project any way possible, whether it's by advertising them or by paying them more. Again, so grateful and thankful to everyone at Webflow. @Mat @PixelGeek @thesergie @brryant @cyberdave @vincent @callmevlad and everyone else. Thank you from the bottom of my heart and happy holidays


#15

@Anna_Kelian think what the issue is they keep quiet about every feature, there has been a number of posts on these forums asking to be updated but we all just get "Soon" or "Its coming". Then out of the blue its here but with a price tag, I thought they would of handled it better after the CMS release.

We are all thankful for what webflow give us, as it is THE best web design tool out there. The amount of time and money they would have invested into doing this I would of thought it would of made more sense to not just target the big business users, as all those small businesses will not be willing to pay. Which means Webflow are in fact not gaining as much income as they could.

I just worry how expensive webflow will come with all these "Paid" addons, eCommerce will be the next addon to come, but then you start to wonder how much will that cost? Hosting + CMS + Whitelabel + eCommerce

But as I've mentioned great work on the new feature, I just hope we can come to a nicer solution with pricing.

But please, just keep your community updated don't leave us in the dark.


#16

I am reposting from the announcements post after seeing this topic sprout -

Really big plus so thank you Webflow team for this powerful feature - Implementation however could have been different.

I don't mind advertising Webflow in my projects, the naming of files, comments in code. I just don't want Webflow to be the center of attention, I want my client to feel comfortable in a system that feel like it was built specifically for them. For example I would use the whitelabeling to brand the CMS with my client's logo. I would actually still like to still see Webflow but much smaller and not the center of attention. Full whitelabeling (not a single reference to Webflow anywhere) could be still be an added cost for those who'd prefer it.

I also agree with most - If whitelabeling is costing $10, how much would a more complex feature cost in the future?

and SSL? To be honest this should be standard with any pricing plan and btw I still want captcha validation in my forms :wink:

What you guys need is more exposure - something the education sector could use. I can envision Webflow used as a learning platform for designers and developers trying to find the fine line between the abstraction and the code shortening that learning curve. An education plan should be made available for schools / colleges etc.


#17

@Matty I couldn't agree more. I am too worried that once e-commerce is added that will also add additional costs. It's really looking like they are nickel and diming us.

@Anna_Kelian Keep in mind that we are already paying a nice chunk to be on the pro plan. IMO, it's unfair for webflow to keep adding more costs with these updates. As Matty pointed out, they drop this on us out of the blue. People are promised these features and they don't mention one single word that there will be increased pricing... and so, we stick around hoping to have those in our tool box.

I think the CMS should have been included with the prices we were already paying, but I came to accept the increase in price. But now, charging more to put our logo in the editor our clients see has really, really turned me off. And it's unfortunate that some of you are encouraging them to keep doing this s#@!!

Webflow will be alienating the very audience it is trying to attract. At this point, I could design a custom CMS site with blog, commerce, and white-labeling for much less costs, and more profits using WordPress (or other solutions). At the end of the day, I can't charge a lot more for my clients just because I use webflow. They aren't going to understand.

I can promise you this: if Adobe did this stunt to it's users, I would cancel. I've been patient with webflow but now they are really pushing it.

And speaking of Adobe, I could use Muse right now to build sites for my clients. As part of the $20 a month fee (educational pricing)) I pay there, I get 15 custom domains hosted for free. Oh, and I get access to every damn piece of app they make. Their price has remained the same (or lower) since the day it launched.

I don't mind paying a premium, but there comes a point where I will walk away.


#18

Okay so I think there are two problems here. First, there were were several users complaining about the initial CMS hosting fee and the Webflow Team listened and responded by reducing the price. Now it seems like users are just hoping to get services for free.

If I was going to WhiteLabel a CMS site it would be $10/month for hosting and $5 for the WhiteLabel. That's still right in line with a quality managed hosting like Flywheel.

@Aidz I'd still like to see captcha too but there are some easy work arounds.

Personally, I'd like the price not to go up with e-commerce (of course) but realistically I would imagine there would be some cost just like paying for SSL certificate, PayPal Pro through Woo. If the price/scenario doesn't work for you or your client then explore other options.

The Pro Plan is a super reasonable price for what you are getting especially. If you look around at some WP frameworks, some are more some are less but you aren't getting this type of tool.

Second, it seems like there are some users that don't understand development cost and positive outcomes. I've worked with Framework developers that have charged $30/month for there premium products and basically had over promised and under delivered and ultimately the Framework stagnated or died completely. I'd much prefer to see continuing advancements and lets face it. White Label isn't essential to a website running well or being competitive with a CMS it's a feature to advance your own personal/business brand. $5/month is pretty cheap advertising.


#19

@jdesign users are wanting services for free? Uh no. Nice strawman.


#20

@GodlessGlen So the white label is $5/month per site if you want it. If you aren't wanting it for free then what $2.50/month? It's not a "strawman" as you say, it seems like a fact.

Just curious if based on this previous post...aren't you planning to charge your clients?