And my personal bette noir; the sodding asset management - been on the wishlist for 3+ years, always near the top…
Sorry @vincent but its true, 3 years for multilingual and * Real-time filtering/sorting on website
Nested collection lists is ridiculous.
What I see here is what I see all the time: people complaining and talking about “the community” with a history of not helping but just requesting help and complain, and people trying to make them understand why it could be so, and those are very well know here to spend a lot of time to help users and educate about web design, html, css and Webflow.
I am one of those talking about the community, especially in this post: There are issues with this whole community and I can tell you that:
(1) the tone of the OP is completely OK, completely respectful and honest. I’d say that it is even too mild, but let’s not digress in this. I’d also add that the years cited are inaccurate, because that is the time of the requests staying the Wishlist. But those requests date from earlier posts in the forum, before the introduction of the Wishlist. So the waiting time is actually longer.
(2) since Webflow get our fees and they get funding, they must be accountable for what is going on. You give some explanations why it takes so much time, they sound reasonable, but told by you, they are a mere speculation. It is Webflow who must answer.
(3) we pay our fees and this is enough for us to demand accountability. Since when is contributing to the community a license to require the quality and scope that Webflow promise us and that we pay for?
(4) I have personally contributed to the community, you can check my forum activity on my profile. But as I mentioned above in this thread, I realized that was futile and discouraging. I’ll repeat myself here (and repeating oneself is very unpleasant thing to do): reporting bugs, with detailed descriptions, making screenshots, gifs, explaining how you have isolated the bug so as to make sure it comes from Webflow and not from some setting on your own computer, etc, takes time. Then by the responses you get from support and by the actual outcome of nothing happening, you come to realize how it’s nothing but a waste of time. Reporting UI glitches is an even worse waste of time (and waste of self-respect - it’s instructional to see how Webflow react when users express disagreement with some of their UI work). So why contribute?
(5) what I said in the above point is just to illustrate that even contributing is flawed by the way Webflow treat us as paying customers. Just an additional point and nothing else. I want to emphasize again, that a paying user need not contribute anything in order to be in the right to demand accountability!
Jesus the right to demand? Really? Demand?
How can a discussion take place, how can you be heard if you truly think: “I am a paying customer, I have the right to demand”. Occasions where demanding is appropriate, let alone efficient, are very rare. Webflow never promised anything to you. Instead they flawlessly provided what you paid for, and they continuously improved it. Oh, not in the direction you and some other wanted? And for how long? Oh, just a couple of years? Uzzer you’re making everyone tired here, each and every time. You are rude and inconsiderate and you sound like you’re listening yourself talking.
As a Spaniard, I too am waiting for Multilanguage. It would never come to my mind that I could speak like you and @liamemery do.
How do you talk to people! You should apologise.
Yes, indeed, when you pay for something, you demand that you get what you have been promised. Maybe when you visit the grocery store you like to pay double and get the lower quality version of what you asked for? Accel are investing in Webflow and I guess, if they do not get the results they want, they’d demand accountability. Or you think on the contrary? Do we need to discuss such things, for God’s sake.
And Webflow have promised a lot of things, they do advertize. They promise various tiers of support in their pricing plans, don’t they? They have consistently been telling us, in this forum and in webinars, that it takes them a lot of time to develop new features, because they want to keep high quality.
Update: see this: https://webflow.com/covid-business-resources. Page title “Everything we do at Webflow starts with you.” LOL
They have not flawlessly provided what I paid for. Just think how often their platform is laggy, especially with collections with many items, to the point of being unusable.
Please, do not speak on behalf of everyone.
Btw, I am also tired of the “positive attitude trolls” who act as advocates of Webflow, any time, anything different from complete amazement, excitement and enthusiasm, is expressed on the topic of Webflow’s performance. But I do not allow myself to speak on behalf of everyone.
It would never come to my mind that I could speak like you and @liamemery do.
And maybe the multilanguage feature would never come, too?
I still cannot understand what you find wrong with the OP. The OP raised completely valid things (which have been raised before, too) and his tone is completely respectful. What exactly is bothering you?
Hi @uzzer I wanted to ask - Have you ever considered simply not paying for Webflow and using a different service? I feel like since you are very unhappy with many things about the product, there could be a better paid service for you out there that would make up for the shortcomings you’ve found in Webflow.
I think in free markets you don’t have the right to demand everything simply because you pay. If you are unhappy, you have the right to use a competitor. That is the free market at work. Webflow does not have a monopoly on web design/development AT ALL. There are hundreds (thousands?) of services out there to create websites. Webflow has a unique niche in the market for how they create the sites, but at the end of the day, there are a million different ways to deliver a website to an end-user. If a grocery store charges too much, you wouldn’t demand them lower their prices, you would simply go to another grocery store. (if there isn’t another grocery store around and that particular store had a monopoly on that region, then yes of course that’s a totally different scenario)
I’m not trying to be snarky or sarcastic at all, I honestly believe that when services doesn’t meet expectations - a valid option is to simply walk and pay a different service to perform the tasks you desire. It’s on Webflow to keep you as a paid customer - if they lose you, then they lose you and the money you pay to them.
@justin_c This is a good question and you should ask not only me about it, but also the OP and plenty of other people expressing their frustration with Webflow in this forum, in the Wishlist, in the Facebook page and elsewhere.
But since you are asking me, I’ll answer for myself.
(1) Webflow is a monopolist in terms of the UI and features they offer. They have spoiled a number of things in their UI and vital features are missing, but still, they are offering much more than anyone else on the market (unless I have missed something. If you know a better service, even at a higher price, I’d go there ASAP. Please PM me about it, I am completely serious. I have been researching the alternatives for quite a long time, though and I have not found an even close one yet ).
(2) If I stay with Webflow and if Webflow eat up their egos, and do fix their wrongs, we both win. I shall continue to pay for Webflow and people working with me, too. Webflow will win by keeping our fees. I will win by being far more productive than I currently am. It’s a win-win.
If I abandon Webflow and switch to my earlier workflows, I’ll lose by becoming extremely inefficient. Webflow will lose the fees of a few people. Plus, if others follow my example, they’d lose some more fees. It’s a lose-lose.
(One detail here: if Webflow rely on their current funding or intend to get acquired in the near future, they do not lose indeed. Then it’s gonna be more of a win-lose for Webflow.)
If I continue using Webflow and if Webflow do not improve, it’s going to be a mild lose-lose. My workflow would still be inefficient. Not as inefficient as the one before Webflow, but still inefficient. And it’s going to be a mild lose for Webflow, as well, because earlier or later, other users would become disillusioned/ dissapointed and would start seeking some form of an alternative.
(3) And Webflow are already not taking full advantage of me as a customer:
- I choose not to pay for their hosting plans, simply because I do not get the features and reliability, and even attitude, for the pricing they ask;
- I have also given up on the idea of using Webflow for some larger projects, where I had intended to use it. It is simply too unreliable and limited;
- Webflow has also lost potential customers in terms of developers that I have recommend it to. One started to like it but soon became frustrated with some glitches in the UI. Others consider it too limited;
- as said above, I gave up on reporting bugs long ago. Webflow is losing my free contribution this way;
- I used to be an ardent proponent of Webflow among freelancers I meet and in various online media. I am no longer doing that free word-of-mouth marketing for Webflow, because it longer shows the potential that it used to.
And believe it or not, that is the case not only with me. Webflow are already losing potential profit because of the way they perform. But they do not realize it, because the current paradigm in business, globally, is to measure only how many sales you have made and not how many you have missed to make alongside.
I get what you’re after and I too would like to see these important features added more quickly, but the main issue is not per se development turnaround or “time”. It’s communication. Now do keep in mind the recent blog post about the upcoming features, which is very welcome. But I’m missing a centralized way of knowing what’s up.
I think WF is at a point where every new feature can break 50 existing things, that is pretty much a guarantee with software this complex. It’s really difficult to keep production quality, grow your team AND add existing features. I’ve worked super crunch on a couple of startups and I KNOW that this is super hard. Hell, we had trouble growing something 100 times smaller than webflow in a full year. The customers were there, but for every feature you add, you are denying 3 others - if that makes sense.
Add to that the very liquid state of front-end development and you’ve got a disaster recipe for building out too quickly. And yes, 3 years can be too quickly. There’s a reason tools like Photoshop or Maya are not changing at a visible pace anymore. And that reason is not just money. It’s complexity. You think Autodesk thinks Blender and C4D are a joke?
What frustrates people about the slow seeming progress of WF is that these things are possible in code, and have been for a long time. I think that’s why it is super important to communicate timeline because your product is always compared and mapped to the virtual realm of “everything is possible”. But give it a go and clone a create-react-app and see what WF is trying to evolve from/to.
You can’t really compare it to Contentful. That’s an API CMS. Build me a layout with contentful and compare it then. Don’t even get me started on Adobe AEM or Salesforce. It should be telling I combine those in one sentence.
That’s not how you talk to people about people. This is rude and you do it all the time.
no worries @vincent…this is a GOOD problem for Webflow
#Hope everyone in good health in this difficult situation
@Veronica in your perceptions that is rude, but do you think it’s true?
Interesting. What is it that you do, exactly?
Looking forward to you posting a link to your professional work or past projects/portfolio so we can get a better understanding of how to build a million dollar IP that’s better than Webflow.
Thank’s in advance!
@NewInBoston The original post is not about me. Please, do not hijack the thread.
Indeed, how selfish of me- I didn’t realize Veronica was the original post. Thank you for helping keep the thread on track.
Amidst wistful notions
to revive his parched heart,
he craves to be ladled with ardent spirit, and cradled... in the tulip of no-code forever.
@NewInBoston congrats on being the first to unlock this badge!
@NewInBoston the original post is exactly the original post - about why it takes so long for Webflow to develop essential features.
Please, do not turn this discussion into a kindergarten. It is not about personal stuff. You can PM me as much bullshit as you like or open up a new topic on the forum, but the discussion here is about Webflow’s slow development. Personal attacks are immature.
Sir, that isn’t a perception, that is rude. And the author of the thread is rude too when he compares devs to snails. I am very sorry but this is 2 important things:
education, and you’re a grown man I am so sorry for you that I have to tell you this: you simply don’t talk to people like this, this is disrespectful. Even if you allow others to talk to you this way.
strategy: you’re never going to obtain anything from people in life if you talk to them like this, if you demand, if you think there are occasions in life where you can simply “demand” things.
Great example of “slow dev Ricochets” -
blog pagelist (One of the most basic pages):
1/5. Category post count ==>
2/5. Search posts (Not the entire site)
3/5, Archive posts by month/year
4/5. Numeric pagination
5/5. Nested categories -or- tags inside blog pagelist
client X hire some UI designer - and this is the design/UI the customer approved?.. Now what? (He simply chooses WordPress).
During most sales meeting (Or calls), the customer will ask “What the difference between Webflow and WordPress?” (OR why wb and not WP) - this is really a problem.
@Veronica do you have anything (meaningful) to say about why Webflow take so long to develop crucial features?
Also, would you be so kind to reveal us what strategy does work for making Webflow deliver the quality and the no code capabilities that they promise?
Sure, demanding may not work, but what do you think may work?
Obviously kind words and patience have not brought us any result yet. And obviously sugary attitude has let Webflow freely fool around with all sorts of useless stuff (which does consume tons of man hours) and adventurous forays into premature extensions of scope.
Same sugary attitude has let Webflow treat us with utter nonchalance and disrespect, when it comes to users quite not happy with their UI changes.
Are you blind to see all this?
We all lose from this. Your needed multilanguage feature is nowhere near the horizon. You lose, too. And for God’s sake, Webflow, if not losing, do not win from this.
PS: I already mentioned it, but you seem not to take notice. Please, hurry up and inform Accel that they are never going to obtain anything from Webflow if they demand things! LOL Vlad says in Facebook, in a comment below the official announcement for getting that funding, “In fact, these investors don’t even have any rights to “demand” anything even if they wanted to.” Would you believe any investor would put money without any power leverage? Relying on kindness and patience, alone?
What frustrates people about the slow seeming progress of WF is that these things are possible in code, and have been for a long time.
Yes, and the fact that many of the requested features, with the ease of use of Webflow’s front end, feel like they could be so easily achieved. For examples the Collections system UX is so good it feels like it could allow much more complex operations like with advanced DBs. But it’s just not there yet (and I’m frustrated )