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Ouch! WF not for pros?!


#1

I thought this was a funny response :stuck_out_tongue: to a question

https://www.quora.com/Do-proffesional-website-designers-use-tools-like-Macaw-and-Webflow

I think he is totally wrong of course... err top tier pros he call them.


#2

A tool is only as good as you.


#3

From the page:

They're really more meant for just 'rapid prototyping' which quite frankly can be done more quickly 9 times out of 10 by hand with (or without) a framework like Foundation/Bootstrap than with an app like these.

it would be fun to see a speed challenge where a fast coder VS a Webflow designer go head-to-head and publish a single page, fully designed with animations and interactions.


#4

I'd love to watch a coder squirm on that one.


#5

I don't know if you guys recognise this, but a lot of times when I propose Webflow, it is being frowned upon by conservative developers who prefer not to take the unconventional approach - even though it is much MUCH faster than hand coding.

It's irritates me to the bone, but on the other hand it does give a feeling of satisfaction when you eventually prove to be right, and they're wrong :smile:


#6

I think webflow should invite pro designers/developers to create something just with webflow.


#7

:muscle::v:


#8

@Anna_Kelian, I saw that last week. Brilliant.


#9

Do this:

  1. challenge a Dev to build a single page
  2. record or stream the challenge online
  3. post your results :wink:

#10

If the challenge involves a data table, the dev will win since webflow still doesn't allow to have data tables and style the TH vs TD etc.

If it involves custom styling the checkboxes and radio buttons and select boxes, well, webflow still doesn't allow you to style those very much either.

If it involves something with separate breakpoints for say, 6000 pixel wide screen, 4000 pixel wide screen, well again, webflow maxes out at 960 as largest breakpoint.

So while I love webflow, it still has some limits. I know there is the ability to do custom code, but the reason we all adopted webflow is to avoid coding.

Where the webflow cowboy will win for sure is in flexbox layouts. A dev will be scratching their head trying to figure out why they can't get their UL to have the flexbox layout they want, while the webflow jockey will already be surfing reddit for taunting cat gifs because they finished in 1 minute.


#11

I have a friend who does "code". Here's the two of us compared regarding making websites:
[NOTE: We are both like 16 years old so its not like we are professionals or anything but this data still is staggering]

Me:
Websites Released: 6<
My Websites: made from scratch
Avg. time to develop website: 5 hr.

My friend:
Websites Released: 2>
His Websites: uses templates (says making it from scratch takes too long)
Avg. time to develop website: a VERY long time

This is just my experience with Webflow and how blessed I am to have it. An amazing tool! Glad you guys feel the same way! :wink::blush::smiley:


#12

Sorry but a strong front end developer can run circles around a tool like Webflow.

A lot of you don't seem to understand development in the first place and really don't know what a modern workflow looks like. With a few commands a developer can build their libraries, scaffold up a site, and automate their site deployment.

When it comes to styling the site and including interactions, developers have more control over what goes on and what can happen versus using Webflow. A developer will already know what CSS framework (bourbon, foundation, skel3, bootstrap, uikit) they will be using and likely already have a customized version of said framework they go to when starting a project.

Most of the time it's a simple git clone and gulp to get things started. Then with packages like browsersync, a developer can write semantic DRY CSS on the fly and create a robust, interactive and performant site faster then any WYSIWG tool on the market.

Let's not even get into interactivity because the very small library that is offered with Webflow doesn't come close to what can be accomplished by a developer.

Webflow is a great tool, but it's limited in scope and constrains the creative process outside of its own framework, so stop kidding yourself over how great you are compared to actual developers.


#14

@VladimirVitaliyevich What does being a freelancer have to do with it? Developers can be freelancers. They can also be designers. Building a website doesn't make you a user experience or user interface designer. It makes you a website designer. More appropriately it makes you a website builder, because you used tools at your disposal to build a website. There's nothing wrong with that, but you're confusing terms.

UI & UX are not the same thing, never have been and never will be. UX design is a specialized discipline that few can achieve in a meaningful way and it transcends the web as a medium. UI design requires more then just creating a styled navigation menu and adding some animation to web elements because it makes it pretty.


#15

@jwburkhard Don't worry, I know the difference. :wink:

Although you contradict yourself with saying it is better to code a site yourself because then Webflow would not exist.

A lot of people don't know how to code (at least in America) but want to get into design of websites. Therefore they resort to Webflow. Makes sense?

Anyway, I fell as if we could go on for hours so I will just stop now. Have a nice day. :wink::+1:


#16

Apple vs Microsoft
Mac vs Windows
iOS vs Android
Xbox vs PS4
Designer vs Developer
Webflow vs Hand-Coding

...will the MADNESS ever end!? :wink:


#17

@JF426 Haha.... So true :wink::blush::+1:


#18

Today I feel a bit disappointed by Webflow even if Im not a dev. I just realised it was getting easier for a developer to build a strong website today with all those amazing libraries. And also, some wordpress websites have a very nice look now and works perfectly on every devices and it seems very fast to make a strong website with Wordpress too.
I will still use webflow during some time because I want to believe in its power but I will definitely try to make a website from scratch (not'using webfloW) and see what I can do with it and how many time it will take for a non dev like me


#19

@Blaise_Posmyouck Don't you have to know how to code to use Wordpress? (Correct me if I am wrong.) :wink:


#20

I noticed that in such "arguments/discussions" people lose the point that Webflow (as a Wordpress too, actually) is TOOL? It will not create your site without your brain and hands, just by pressing one button.
As a creator, you got the tool in your hands and how you use it depends on you.

Compare hand coding and creating the site with Webflow is like comparing 2 building workers, one will have only hammer and screwdriver and the other one modern tool box. No one of them can 100% build the perfect house because somewhere it would require some modern tools and in other places only screwdriver could help.

Having great tool in your hands is definitely helps and improve your workflow, but you have to know how to work without it. Yet, without knowledge how properly use the tool you will not get a good result.

Webflow can't replace your hands and brain, but it may help to make your code more perfect. Do you prefer hand coding? Fine :slightly_smiling: It will hurt nobody, as long as you do not blame others for your own failures.

Peace :slightly_smiling:


#21

I am not looking for something to build a website by pressing one button, I actually enjoy using my brain for this kind of stuff. Also, I am not saying I prefer hand coded rather than webflow I am just questionning myself about the future of webflow, especially when I see nice interactions in other projects coded by hand and I am not able to draw Svg or something like that with webflow because of the damn 5000 character limit in the embed widget. Drawing svg should not be something we have to do only when our webflow project is exported, we should already be able to do it inside webflow now, via the embed widget or something. But I am not skilled enough to go on talking about that, i am just interested in the community point of vue concerning the real power of Webflow